Confusion with Reverse Kegels

[imac Retired Moderator Member of the Month Nov 12PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close imac]

I for one have tried it James for the last month and its going pretty well so far, I'd definitely recommend it to any fellow beginner. I do have a question though for you, imac or anyone else that has experience with rk's though. I'm at a point where I have the conditioning to hold an rk for an extended period of time. But I still have some work to do as far as isolation is concerned. I can hold a rear rk fine, and also a middle/towards front rk. But I'm struggling and don't seem to have the strength in the very front, right at the base of the penis (i.e. the front of the BC). I can't seem to create that expanding sensation, or any sort of feeling there. I can certainly feel it when I front k, but reverse? Nothing in the form of sensation or feeling of movement that I get with the front regular. Do you have any tips for really isolating the front rk? Do I just need to keep practicing?

Edit: Sorry, I should also mention that this is the area where my involuntary spasms occur, even in the face of an rk - where as I can force the rest of the pelvic floor to relax

You're never going to feel a front RK to the same degree as you feel a front kegel because one's a strength exercise and the others a stretch.
Reverse kegels require skill not strength, there more subtle that kegels. Particularly front RK because you're trying to isolate a smaller muscle.
Something else to note is that when doing front kegels or front reverse kegels, no matter how good you get a isolation you're going to affect the front part of the PC muscle because it's connected to the BC muscle. This is really more true for regular front kegels because you're contracting the muscle or hard front reverse kegels which there's no real need for anyway.

When it comes to reverse kegels the key is to start light and pay attention to the subtle muscle movements and while your awareness of your body grows you'll be able to feel and control the subtle movements better and then you can increase the pressure you apply to each stretch in a controlled way.

Don't listen to this advise to get all you're muscles involved including your abs because it's all bullshit. It's completely counter productive and totally unnecessary. I'll say it again reverse kegels are a stretching exercise.
If you were stretching any other muscle in your body would you engage other muscles in your body to force the stretch? No you wouldn't because you'd be likely to hurt yourself.

To put it in context for you.
When you take a piss you do a front reverse kegel. When you push the piss out a bit faster you're doing a slighting firmer front reverse kegel so if you can take a piss then you're already capable of doing a front reverse kegel it's all a matter of transferring that isolation and control over to when you're not taking a piss.
What you don't do when taking a piss is engage all your muscles and force it out as hard as you can straining yourself. It would be pointless, unnecessary and potentially dangerous.

What to do is just keep the area around your penis as relaxed as possible and use light pressure to start, just like you would if taking a piss(not pissing fast just normally) and pay attention to your body and how it feels in that area and as you become familiar with it you'll be able to apply more controlled pressure to it. If you struggle to apply more pressure use your diaphragm to push out not your abs.

[pumiar666 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close pumiar666]

sorry for my english it's worst but i need to know something

I'm trying to do kegels (not reverse kegels), but i think i do it wrong.
Question is: Is there ANY chance to do reverse kegels instead of kegels(normal,common), if i know the meaning of kegels, reverse kegels(valsalva maneuver,or only valsalva). I know the meaning only technically(in paper,book) not practically.
OR both in the same time (k and rk)
sorry for the english

[dongbang Member Find all posts View Profile Close dongbang]

It seems when I do a rk I am still flexing my lower abs no matter what even when I piss

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

It seems when I do a rk I am still flexing my lower abs no matter what even when I piss

This is normal ability to isolate grows with practise and I do not see any great problem in doing a compound movement. Over time try to increase your ability to isolate.

[JamesMonroe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JamesMonroe]

iMac is wrong. Like Pegasus said, compound exercising the rev kegel helps to get better at it. I built up my strength to be able to do rev kegels easier over time all over that area. IMac has obviously not worked with reverse kegels for enough time for him to see te strength and flex he can have and how it helps(over time) to be able to do a hard long rev kegel with little very little effort. No.... it is not because I "got better at doing them"..... that's ridiculous.... I got better because I build strength all around the area. It's physically obvious. If imac HAS spent lots of time working with them, then he never did it right or his body is not compatible with this kind of work. He's the one telling you not to push hard and that it's just a stretch. Keep listening to him then.

[JamesMonroe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JamesMonroe]

(part 2) (scroll up for part 1)
Btw.... I meant to type that rev kegels don't make your penis bounce up and down like a REG kegel does.... so sorry for the typo. When a reverse kegel is BUILT UP stronger with the help of all the surrounding muscles, you will then be able to stop ejaculation dead in its tracks and also you will be able to pump your penis full of blood, giving you a biggger erection, without the drawbacks/EQ loss that regular kegels sometimes give you. If you don't know what im talking about iMac, then I don't know what to tell you....

[buttersketch Member Find all posts View Profile Close buttersketch]

THe main problem I am having is, when I am aroused, the PC muscle becomes tense and clenches in. When I am not aroused, the PC muscle is less tense. Now what I tried to do when aroused is do RK to counter the tension, but RKs while aroused will let my abs tense up causing me to cum prematurely due to all the tension building in my body.

When I RK without arousal I can easily relax the pelvic floor without any tension building up in the abs or body, but as I am aroused it is harder to RKs in general - and more tension in Abs and body causes me to RPE-E.

anyone else gets that?

[imac Retired Moderator Member of the Month Nov 12PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close imac]

iMac is wrong. Like Pegasus said, compound exercising the rev kegel helps to get better at it. I built up my strength to be able to do rev kegels easier over time all over that area. IMac has obviously not worked with reverse kegels for enough time for him to see te strength and flex he can have and how it helps(over time) to be able to do a hard long rev kegel with little very little effort. No.... it is not because I "got better at doing them"..... that's ridiculous.... I got better because I build strength all around the area. It's physically obvious. If imac HAS spent lots of time working with them, then he never did it right or his body is not compatible with this kind of work. He's the one telling you not to push hard and that it's just a stretch. Keep listening to him then.

Yeah your right what would I Know I've only being doing reverse kegels naturally since the first time I had sex at 17 before I even knew they had a name, obviously doing something for almost 10 years means I mustn't know shit about it.
And unlike you I've never suffered from premature ejaculation so again it must be me that's doing them wrong.

But that's fine you can keep an giving what I consider to be bad advice I don't expect to change you but I will ask you not to do it on this thread.
This thread is about learning to do reverse kegels in a relaxed and controlled way and you just send mixed messages which quite frankly makes the title of this thread seem ironic.

If your that keen to give advise to those struggling with reverse kegels I suggest starting your own thread detailing your method. You could name it "How to do reverse kegels while shitting yourself" or something to that effect.

[imac Retired Moderator Member of the Month Nov 12PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close imac]

THe main problem I am having is, when I am aroused, the PC muscle becomes tense and clenches in. When I am not aroused, the PC muscle is less tense. Now what I tried to do when aroused is do RK to counter the tension, but RKs while aroused will let my abs tense up causing me to cum prematurely due to all the tension building in my body.

When I RK without arousal I can easily relax the pelvic floor without any tension building up in the abs or body, but as I am aroused it is harder to RKs in general - and more tension in Abs and body causes me to RPE-E.

anyone else gets that?

Use your diaphragm to help you push down. It lets you apply more pressure without tensing up your body.

[JamesMonroe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JamesMonroe]

Hmmm.... I wonder why you are "good" at reverse kegles.... maybe it has a little to do with you STRENGTHENING them and all the other surrounding muscles since you were 17!!! If you're afraid to push harder just wear diapers.

[imac Retired Moderator Member of the Month Nov 12PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close imac]

Like I said if you have something to say on the subject make a thread on how YOU think reverse kegels should be done and if anyone wants to take you're advice they can go there and ask you questions and you can give whatever answers you want. This isn't the place for it!

[JamesMonroe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JamesMonroe]

This post is called "confusion with reverse kegels". It's an open conversation between people that are confused and that will get many great different points of view on the reverse kegels. Most people on this website think you can build up the strength of the reverse kegel, unlike you. Why do you think there are reverse kegel "routines" with sets and reps being suggested all over this site all the time?

[imac Retired Moderator Member of the Month Nov 12PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close imac]

This post is called "confusion with reverse kegels". It's an open conversation between people that are confused and that will get many great different points of view on the reverse kegels. Most people on this website think you can build up the strength of the reverse kegel, unlike you. Why do you think there are reverse kegel "routines" with sets and reps being suggested all over this site all the time?

Yes this thread is called "Confusion with reverse kegels" and it's called that because I wrote it because there seem to me to be confusion about them so I took the method I've always used because I know from experiences that it works, in an effort to clear up the confusion.
That method is what this thread is all about it is NOT a discussion about kegel or reverse kegel theory. This thread exists to allow the people who want to do this method to do so and to ask questions about it.
When you start posting contradictory information then you just start causing the confusion that I was trying to clear up in the first place.

If you want to have a discussion about kegels or reverse kegels then post it on Pegasus' Implications thread or I believe he's about to start a new thread about the commonalities and differences regarding different methods of doing reverse kegels. Those are the proper places for those discussions NOT here.

But as I've said repeatedly now if you think you have a better way to do reverse kegels then create a thread detailing it and answering all the frequently asked questions and I'd be glad to read it. That way if anyone want's your advise then they can ask for it there.

As to your questions.

Most people on this website think you can build up the strength of the reverse kegel, unlike you. Why do you think there are reverse kegel "routines" with sets and reps being suggested all over this site all the time?

When you do a reverse kegels you stretch the muscle. Now just like stretching any other muscle in your body you can increase the "strength" of that stretch by applying more pressure. But stretching a muscle by definition creates flexibility in that muscle if done regularly hence the need for a "routine". It does NOT create strength, that is done by contracting muscles.
The "strength" you're able to apply to a reverse kegel develops with practice and time as you develop isolation and control over you're pelvic floor and it can be done without straining other muscle groups. If you need to apply extra pressure to a stretch then all you need to use is your diaphragm.
But when you describe reverse kegels as being able to increase there strength with conditioning then you again create confusion by leading people to believe it's a strengthening exercise when it's not.
If you can't understand that then I'm sorry but I don't know what to tell you.

So I'll ask again will you please stop posting contradictory information that will cause confusion for people who are following the method detailed in my original post. If you want to provide an alternative then create a thread of your own on how you do them, then people can choose for themselves what method they would rather follow. Thanks.

[JamesMonroe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JamesMonroe]

You created this post cuz u are SURE that you can not build up strength in a reverse kegel, eventhough you just admitted you can. All posts here are open for discussion so that people can get different points of view. So you're special or what? Then CLOSE THE THREAD or make it PRIVATE. Ofcourse we are building strength down there... that's what is enabling us to "stretch" more with time. Can't you see that muscles can't stretch without a muscle to MAKE it stretch? I want you to see if you can stretch any muscle in your body WITHOUT using any muscle at all. Please post a video. What is the reverse kegel then? Some super magical self-stretching stretch thingy?

[imac Retired Moderator Member of the Month Nov 12PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close imac]

So what now, you're putting words in my mouth are you? Or are you just deliberately misinterpreting them to support your argument?
I never said that you can build up the strength of a reverse kegel. I said you can increase the "strength" applied to them, as in force or pressure.
The strength of something and the force applied to something are not the same thing. That's why I deliberately avoid using the word strength when talking about reverse kegels to avoid that misunderstanding.

I also never said that you can stretch muscles without other muscle. What I have said is to stretch the pelvic floor muscles using just the pelvic floor muscles with the aid of the diaphragm and I've also said not to tense your abs or thighs while doing it because the whole point of reverse kegels is to relax the pelvic floor and that become a whole lot harder to do if you're tensing your body at the same time.

But you obviously don't agree with anything I have to say and you seem reluctant for some reason to start a thread detailing your opinions so I have some questions for you.

1. What do you think reverse kegels do?
2. If you think reverse kegels strengthening the muscles in the pelvic floor what do you think kegels do?
3. When doing a reverse kegel do you think you're contracting muscles or relaxing them by stretching them?
4. If you don't think you're stretching and relaxing the muscles then how do you think your pelvic floor works when you have to take a piss or a shit?
5. Why do you think that reverse kegels are something you have to strain yourself to do?
6. Do you think it's important to learn to isolate front and back reverse kegels, If you don't can you explain why?

I look forward to hearing you're answers.