Guy who has zero experience

[Shambok Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Shambok]

The key to this for you is indeed confidence and time. Like Batwoman said, start off with small goals. It might help to tell yourself you don't have to sleep with/kiss the next attractive woman as I'm sure you're putting pressure on yourself to prove your worth to yourself that way on some subconscious level.

In fact why not just try and make her genuinely smile and laugh, then move on from there with improve or try something slightly different with each women you meet or run into like playful teasing and banter. You're going to see plenty fish in your life and if you give off warmth as a person some of them will swim towards you.

One allusion I've also heard is that acquiring confidence is basically like turning a very large heavy dial by hand. You can only turn it a little bit each time, one experience (good and bad) at a time and slowly. If you try turn it all the way to 'superstar' quickly you're going to come short and get hurt/upset. But if you're patient and build on top of each experience and lesson it'll come.

Maybe you've realised too now that that heavy dial is your own personal psyche.

Don't devalue yourself either because if you don't place any store in your self worth how will a woman see it in you? The thing is also that you need to find that within yourself - women are not going to give it to you and it's not fair to them to think they might do so. But as you get older you might be surprised to find out how much you're overrating others at your own expense. I did that.

I also went through the school of hard knocks and I was initially terrible but it does get better, really much better over time. If you're positive and keep working on it even when it gets tough you'll pull through.

[coconutta Member Find all posts View Profile Close coconutta]

Don't let your past control your future. U get rejected. You move on. Learn from it. Try a new approach. Go to a club and talk to 10 girls. Up your odds. 1 out of 10 might say yes. If not. After 10 rejections it will be a piece of cake to deal with. Then your confidence will come from being use to it. Jeez use a rejection as an opener.

[amiok Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close amiok]

In fact why not just try and make her genuinely smile and laugh, then move on from there with improve or try something slightly different with each women you meet or run into like playful teasing and banter.

Well, I have done that before. Actually had a girl in my class last year who I was almost positive liked me, I used to bust her proverbial balls all the time, and she ate it up. But I never made that next move to ask her out or anything for two reasons.

1. My lack of confidence, even thought I girl I knew liked me would turn me down.

2. The only reason I even really dug her at all was because I knew she liked me. I didn't want to be like that, pretty much just try to use her because I can't get someone else. Yea, I'm too nice.

[rimlas Member Find all posts View Profile Close rimlas]

Sleep with a hooker. Then have a short chat afterwards. You'll notice it's a lot easier to talk to girls when you are no longer a virgin.

[Hanma Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hanma]

Try thinking that it's your last day on earth, and go for it. Be classy, still.

[Batwoman Moderator ReservePEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Batwoman]

2. The only reason I even really dug her at all was because I knew she liked me. I didn't want to be like that, pretty much just try to use her because I can't get someone else. Yea, I'm too nice.

Liking someone because they like you is normal! Most relationships begin that way. Just because she's nice and you're nice and you might not end up getting married is no reason not to go on a date! Remember that point of a first date should be to have fun and maybe get to know your date a little better, nothing more.

[dsmall Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dsmall]

I can relate. I went through puberty very late (15 before I even had a wet dream); and watched the whole junior high dating scene like an observer from Mars. I discovered drinking at 13 and distracted myself with that until I was about 17. I did go to dances and kissed a few girls, all one shots with no second or follow up date. I spend a lot of time in the proverbial friend box. At 17, I actually filled out pretty well and grew into my skin. Figured what the heck and just started asking girls out while a bit buzzed. I lost my virginity in a drunken one night stand, but for the most part, I was no sex animal and had no clue what to do. I did date a lot and was quite popular with girls but I really was insecure about my sex prowess because I figured everyone else was so advanced and far ahead of me. At 18 I quit drinking and lost the nerve to approach girls cold sober, all that old rejection fear came back, so I just stayed with an evil shrew of a girlfriend who I met pretty drunk initially, but college and professional school were filled with missed opportunities and times I was just so afraid to take that risk to close the deal with anyone else. I married the shrew very young. Many of those occasions still haunt me today because the marriage was pretty dismal. I just think of all the great girls I passed over because I was so chicken shit that I just stayed with someone because I was afraid to be alone and have to face the dating world sober.

Here is my advice for what it is worth. Start working out regularly at a gym with lots of girls. Take aerobics or yoga classes, the female-male ratio is 20-1. Talk to as many girls as you can about yoga, the class, or the instructor. At some point, ask one of them to go for coffee or something very no-pressure. Say right away, I'm not trying to pick you up, but I would love to have a cup of coffee and pick your brain about something. This first girl should be someone you have no interest in having a physical relationship with. After you've talked about yoga or aerobics, tell her about your problem and explain that you are taking the class to gain confidence, lose weight, and learn to approach girls for conversation, and ultimately for dating--and to get in shape and learn yoga. Tell her that you are not trying to pick her up but would love her her advice about meeting other single people and how she likes to be approached. Tell her that you want her to be honest with you because otherwise you won't learn and change your patterns. Tell her that you know she is out of your league and that you really are just trying to figure everything out after years of fear. (See you are doing research here). Then stay friends with her in the class and don't ask her out, unless she approaches you to go out again. Tell her that you are going to try and have similar conversations with at least 3-5 other girls in the class so you can learn how to relate. She might tell you others to talk to in the class. Stay friends with all of them. Repeat 3-5 times with other girls in the class until you become very comfortable and have learned something about what they like and don't like. Again, the point is to see women as human beings that have the same fears, desires, wants that you do. Learn to talk with them and find out what they look for in romantic partners.

Once you've done that for a month, then we will talk about stage 2. I would be very surprised if at least one of the 5 does not offer to fix you up with a friend in the meantime; or invites you somewhere herself. Again, you have to walk before you run. The goal is to go on a real date.

[amiok Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close amiok]

dsmall: So, in a nut shell you are saying I should just try to get women friends first?

batwoman: Really? I kind of felt like if I had asked her out and we possibly went further than a 1st date, that I would keep it up just to try and get laid even if I didn't really like her that much. I mean I probably over thought that severely lol. But I didn't want to be like that, I'm the "nice guy" and I accept it, I don't want to use women.

[dsmall Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dsmall]

dsmall: So, in a nut shell you are saying I should just try to get women friends first?

It's more than that. By making friends with girls and honestly sharing your story, they will share in return and help you get some insight. If you tell them that you have never been in a relationship, and are interested, they are likely to know your female counterpart and will try and set you up. It's what girls do. There are lots of girls in their late teens and twenties that never went to the prom, never go on dates, etc. Girls know other girls. In the meantime, you are working out, hanging out with other girls and sharing. You're out there in another context. if you are exercise allergic, take a women's literature course at a community college and form a study group. Join a book club full of women. Go where the girls are and learn what they know.

Sorry, but to me 23 year olds are girls, I'm a middle aged fucker and I have to consider them as such so that I don't feel like a dirty old man for ogling them. I love women my own age. They are women. if a woman is young enough that she could be my daughter, she is a girl.

batwoman: Really? I kind of felt like if I had asked her out and we possibly went further than a 1st date, that I would keep it up just to try and get laid even if I didn't really like her that much. I mean I probably over thought that severely lol. But I didn't want to be like that, I'm the "nice guy" and I accept it, I don't want to use women.

Stop trying to get laid. You've never dated. Try and go on dates. Walk before you run. Don't put the cart before the horse. Dating is fun. There is nothing like that feeling of calling that girl, having her say yes to a date; and the anticipation of going out. And if it goes well, its awesome even without sex. Learn to be intimate with women in a nonsexual way before you try and be intimate with them sexually.

If you really just want to get fucked, put a NSA ad on Craigslist; or hire an escort. But you've waited 23 years, try intimacy before fucking. The fucking will follow after you've learned how to be intimate with women. Not "friends" but intimate. You're sharing true pieces of yourself and they are sharing back

[amiok Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close amiok]

Stop trying to get laid. You've never dated.

True, I definitely worded that poorly. I'm not trying to get laid really. I'm scared shitless of getting laid to be honest. I was just trying to make a point that I didn't want to just date the girl because I can't get anyone else, and most guys would call a guy in my situation "desperate". Thanks for making me take another look there.

Also, yea I do need to learn about women. That is 100% fact.

[Shambok Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Shambok]

dsmall is giving some good advice with a good path to walk. It might take longer and not give that instant gratification your hormones desire, as do almost all sexually interested mens' including my own, but it'll give you something better to look back on and you won't betray yourself. If you were to throw aside your values for quick pleasure any potential future growth in your self worth would always be diminished by dislike in yourself.

I also like dsmall idea because if you're not already doing so the gym/yoga will also be a way to simultaneously look after yourself, as on one level we are all superficial beings concerned with appearance. You don't need to become the Incredible Hulk or a Super Athlete as every Men's Mag seems to demand, but looking after your health will help your confidence. I'd also recommend just doing some good grooming if you're not already - without any need to go with this whole 'metrosexual' fad. If you dress nicely (no need for expensive suits or over priced designer labels either), look decent as you yourself can be within your own skin, smell clean and appear healthy that is going to give you some confidence and self respect straight off the bat.

You also say that because you don't want to use women you're a "nice guy". It's good form to indeed not want to take advantage of them and you also clearly have a set of personal values that you shouldn't betray as they are part of your character. However it's also clear that by saying you're a nice guy in inverted comma's you're being a little bit derogatory towards yourself and feel resigned to being lower down the proverbial pecking order. I don't agree.

Here's the thing, while everyone in your circles and the media is probably making out how cool the 'bad boy' is and how he scores so often it doesn't mean it's a case of either being the 'nice guy who finishes last' or said 'bad boy who has all the fun'. You can also work to become the 'good guy' who well balanced women like and doesn't leave damaged ex's with heavy emotional baggage in his wake. You'll still have values and integrity but you'll also have (gained) the psychological strength to believe in and stand up for yourself, including others and to confront the difficulties that life will inevitably throw at you.

The good guy also doesn't chain their sexuality but also doesn't impose it on others. After all, well balanced women are also going to be healthily interested in sex and guys who display healthy male sexuality and measured masculinity - the same way we look at them for measured femininity and healthy female sexuality. But that's also for much later on and another story in itself.

Again, this is going to have to come from experience and walking that difficult path that does indeed eventually lead to success and happiness. Nothing is worthwhile to one of good character which comes easy. Just as long as you keep trying and aren't too hard on yourself.

And if you're shit scared about getting laid, well, just cross that bridge when you get there - just remember it doesn't need to be the perfect scenario or with the perfect girl otherwise you'll wait forever - let it be when it feels good and right. My first time after all was an utter disaster for me but thank goodness for the clitoris - she was still happy in the end.

[TomY Banned Find all posts View Profile Close TomY]

Ladies, what do you think truthfully about a man in his 20's who has zero experience with women? I mean zero, never been on a date nor had a random kiss from a drunk girl, nothing. What advice would you give this guy? Guys, ya'll can give me advice too if ya want. Thanks.

I dunno but I'm in about the same boat you are. There's no way in heaven or hell I could just walk up to a girl in a bar and pick her up, so I ease into it through online means. I just keep using free dating sites as much as I can and trying to follow through whenever I can. I've still never been on a real date but at least I've had some face to face experience in the past year. Although, in a year from now at least I expect to have a 9 inch penis, will that magically create the confidence I lack? Losing 60 pounds didn't, so I'm still clueless...

[wind chill Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close wind chill]

Tommy you don't know how lucky you are.You started out with 7nbpel which if f-ing huge so i doubt that size is your problem

[TomY Banned Find all posts View Profile Close TomY]

Tommy you don't know how lucky you are.You started out with 7nbpel which if f-ing huge so i doubt that size is your problem

Heh, yeah which is a double edged sword. Two important attributes they are, but if the fat wasn't the problem, and if the penis size wasn't the problem, then I'm out of options other than just to keep bashing my head against a wall until I can act normally around women. I guess it's good that I can keep a sense of humor about it, but that doesn't seem to get me anywhere, just keeps me sane...

[wind chill Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close wind chill]

Tomy do you have autism,aspergers or social anxiety disorder?