Guy who has zero experience

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Choose girls in your league.

I have to disagree with this. Girls who are super hot who've had attention all their lives might have different expectations, but hiding in the corner just makes you look like yet another chump. Surprise them, don't come across like you're trying to get in their pants, in fact, don't even let them know you're fazed, just be normal, either with no agenda, or tease them like they don't intimidate you - because they shouldn't - and you might find you come across quite alpha if you act like you're used to it.

The secret nobody tells you is that all those assholes who get the girls are just as nervous about it as you, they just have strategies for covering it up. They don't treat rejection as failure. And they get rejected all the time. You see them succeeding because they don't let rejection set them back and they carry on. As should you.

If approaching women is the problem, fear of rejection and all that, just go out a few times with the intention of meeting people. Don't go out on the pick up. Just be honest, go and introduce yourself. No expectations. Say "hi, I'm new in the area and you seem kinda cool, I just wondered where were the best places to hang out?"

You might then find they recommend places they like so you may well see them again. So then you already have an intro line to go up and say hi! (edit) She already knows you're not threatening, you might find she's really receptive to you - maybe introduce you to her friends...

If you don't make a girl feel awkward they'd have to be a total bitch to turn on you, and if they do, they're either not the sort of person you want to meet anyway, or just as likely, they're just not in the mood to be approached, and that's fine too.

Remember, all but the most hideously deformed girls get approached all the time, they've got their reponse down to a fine art. Flip the script. Don't approach with an agenda, don't approach in the same way as every other monkey who wants to get in her pants does, and you'll be fine.

Don't treat rejection as a failure. It isn't. treat it as a learning experience. In fact, don't even approach with the notion of success or failure. Of course, getting laid would be a huge success, but if that's all you're after it will show, and you're not ready to pull that sort of bravado off yet. Furthermore, you might not even want to be that way, you might find that actually interacting with girls is just as much fun. And I'm willing to bet that if you're honest about your situation with a girl you've been talking to for a little while and ask her about guys in the bar on the prowl, what sorts of guys interest her, which ones don't, she'll be more than happy to tell you.

You might find that just being friendly and not being on the pickup leads to you talking to a lot of girls in a bar or wherever. You might even make friends. And it won't go unnoticed that you're talking to lots of girls, it'll make you look popular. And that's attractive.

Then when you've met a few people, and your confidence is up, i can see you one day wondering what all the fuss was about and what you were even afraid of. Imagine how great that'll be

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Choose girls in your league.

To be honest I'm not even sure how you'd tell. Any girl you're confident around is in your league. Any girl you're terrified of is out of your league. It's got nothing to do with looks, or leagues. In fact I think this sort of thinking is really destructive because it sets you up for thinking you'll never be good enough for some girls by virtue of your genes, your looks, or how many goblins chanted your name last week .. I would urge you to push thoughts like that out of your head entirely.

f you found identical twins, one shy and retiring, and one super cocky and confident, you'd find Ugly Betty was out of twin 1's league, but twin 2 wouldn't even care and would probably have a hot girlfriend. That's how real leagues are.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Yea, I need to like myself. I have to erase that negative thinking, no matter how deep rooted it is, and it's deep man.

That's bullshit and you know it. Stop making excuses. You're a fucking champ, act like it.

[TomY Banned Find all posts View Profile Close TomY]

That's bullshit and you know it. Stop making excuses. You're a fucking champ, act like it.

Yeah, that may work for getting one more rep out of someone on the bench, but females will still slap you for daring to try and talk to them at a bar. We know it's not hard for you, you've done it before, that's great...

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

If it would make you feel more relaxed, start small -- ask someone out for coffee. ... Don't expect more than an outing and some conversation

I'd go even further and say that's *all* you should do, and if you get on, you could meet up at a bar or go dancing maybe. Better still, go do something you want to do anyway (say, a gallery you like, or a gig from a band you like) and ask her if she fancies meeting you there. If she doesn't show up you're still gonna enjoy the thing you went there for in the first place, but if she does, she'll either share your passion already, or she'll be interested when you tell her about it. Guaranteed - she went there to meet you, right?

Don't fall into the trap of buying dinner and flowers and presents and shit until you've actually had sex and are dating. Harsh maybe? But far better that than you get into a destructive cycle of chasing pussy with your wallet. Save your heart and your bank balance the trouble

Two added bonuses of this - firstly you won't be taken advantage of. I know not all girls will do this, but plenty will. Just like blokes will if given things on a plate all the time, you lose respect.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

You also have the option of walking around parties telling women you're a virgin. If you can follow that up with a conversation I promise you're golden.

I might try this myself Being 35, that might spark some conversation

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

... but females will still slap you for daring to try and talk to them at a bar.

That's also bullshit. You can try and talk yourself out of it all you like, but I'm not gonna take that seriously.

[Shambok Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Shambok]

amiok, TomY and Hockey_NY you must still start small in the beginning and focus on breaking your lack of willingness to believe that you're good enough not for women you perceive to be in a higher league but for yourself. It's how I had to begin and related to what others have mentioned before. Experience, experience, experience gives you the know how in these things and the deep knowing gives you confidence.

amiok, TomY you have to realise that you're also being your own worst enemy on this with that psychological attitude and that attitude is the actual obstacle you must first overcome, hence why spanky had such a violent reaction. I was the same as you and it was a massive realisation for me when I realised just how much damage I had done and was still doing to my own life by stubbornly repeating my mistakes and hoping for different results.

It's no exaggeration when I admit I actually started hyper ventilating when I realised I was a worse obstacle to my own life success and happiness than any of my worst enemies or most terrible events in my life had ever been. If you tell yourself how terrible you are you will certainly become so and I'm sure you do a lot of thinking to yourselves. If you can show yourself that it's not true and you are worth something you will likely become worth more. People can and do change and the greater man is the one who is seeking to grow. There can sometimes even literally be physical transformations in people who can change their view.

Do I have regrets? Yes - that I didn't try and/or 'wake up' earlier. Incidentally I also have a friend who was at the 'zero experience' level the same time I was years ago. He's intellectually brilliant and we both set out to improve at the same time but while I repeatedly would make an ass of myself and had to struggle back to my feet he gave up after just one bad experience and came up with all sorts of sophisticated reasons to justify why he wouldn't go back. Years later and the gap between us is all too painfully apparent.

but to be honest nothing I do will help until a lady gives me positive feedback.

No. You can't seek that from women and believe it will turn you around or that you'll even get it for that matter. That approval has to come from within yourself to yourself by doing things other posters and I before this post have repeatedly suggested here. That sounds utterly esoteric but you must try and take those initially terrifying steps in some way towards the unknown that may hold wonderful rewards. As written earlier in the thread there are other areas of your life that you can develop which may herald unpredictable experiences. I can't be prescriptive as everyone differs but there are paths for you that you must choose.

Take my example again. Over several years I've been out on dates with what must be close to a hundred women and got rejected by plenty more. Around 10% of those ever led to something more and even less onto something serious. It was also terrible many times and I did wonder about the point of what I was doing. But I also found I learnt and began turning some women down as time progressed and even learnt first hand how some beautiful women are horrific deep down and I didn't want any of their potential approval because it can come with manipulation or truly frightening personal demons.

Many women are also very insecure and sensitive - hence why it's unfair and even dangerous in a sense to expect them to give you what they themselves may not have. People also don't necessarily like it if someone is trying to find happiness or live through them. To enjoy the benefits of a healthy interdependent relationship you first need to move from dependence to independence in yourself. When two independent people can always give something to each other then it's the foundation of a (potentially) healthy relationship.

Which comes back to you and trying to grow. It can be done. I strongly urge you to at least adjust your daily routines in some way to allow yourselves to be open to experience the scary and unexpected in life and which brings change. I after all keep posting here in response to your posts because I see so much of my old self in you and the chance for you to begin earlier than I did in my life.

By the way, please also take a look into the Dunning Kruger effect on Wikipedia in a related thought to this thread. There's a little point buried in that summary of the paper that I want you to find.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Here's something you could try. Next time you see a woman or girl (depending on your perspective ) wearing something cool, maybe a really cool coat, or a cute bag.. whatever, something you notice about her that you like. When you've got that, go and ask her where she got it from. Say

Excuse me, I hope you don't mind me approaching you like this, but it's my girlfriend's birthday coming up and I just love that (coat/bag/top), It's really cool, or really sexy or something. would you be able to tell me where you got it from?

Maybe then ask her for some gift ideas, or shops you could try because she seems like she's got great taste, or if you're uncomfortable giving compliments, say she seems to have similar style to your girlfriend. Up to you if you want to continue the conversation, but don't get her number. Don't ask for it. Don't present yourself in that way at all. Remember all the way through, you're not trying to pick her up, so you don't have to worry about how you come across, it's like asking a stranger the time, but with more words.

When you're done, again, don't ask her what she's doing later or anything like that. Just say thank you and leave.

Make a point of doing this exact same thing with various random girls for a day. Maybe set yourself a challenge to approach and talk to ten girls today before you go home. I repeat, don't go for her number. Don't try to pick her up or steer the conversation towards anything like that. It'll put immense pressure on you and you'll look like an idiot if you're not genuine. Just get comfortable with introducing yourself and moving on.

If you're unlucky enough to get sprung... you won't be, but just in case, I would be honest about it. Say

well, look this is really embarrassing and all, but I'm trying to work on my confidence meeting people and I made myself a promise I'd introduce myself to ten girls today. I do genuinely like that coat by the way.. sorry to have put you in an awkward position

She'll have to be a *complete arse* to give you a hard time after that. I can't promise that won't happen... sadly, some people are just nasty. But at least you'll know it's them that's screwed up, not you.

[amiok Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close amiok]

Spanky: Yea, I know I have to stop being a pussy. Confidence, gotta work on it.

Batwoman: Good analogy.

Hockey: Why do you have no confidence? You have a monster dick according to your stats. Is it the way you were treated as a kid? We're you heavy?

Tom: Yea guys who are used to getting treated poorly know how its is.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Something else I'd add... what is rejection anyway? She doesn't know anything about you. She's probably busy or just not in the mood for another guy trying to pick her up, it's nothing to do with you personally.

and confidence... you can't rely on your cock, man. 99.9% of people you meet will never see your cock, nor take kindly to being shown it out of the blue.

You really do just have to get out there and try. And you will fuck up, but treat it as an experience, not a test. Walk into every situation in your life with the attitude that you just want to see what happens next if you do 'x', don't treat it as a situation that you're trying to get something from, because that will come across badly, and you'll probably fail.

Do this and I promise you it will get easier and easier every single time.

[TomY Banned Find all posts View Profile Close TomY]

That's also bullshit. You can try and talk yourself out of it all you like, but I'm not gonna take that seriously.

Not trying to get you to take it seriously, you're already set. You know everyone can do the same thing you can do, and there's nothing that exists that will change your mind nor would I care to. It's not about you...

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

you're already set. You know everyone can do the same thing you can do, and there's nothing that exists that will change your mind

mate, you'd be surprised. I screw up all the time. And I change my mind all the time. I tell myself these things to force myself off my arse because I've learnt that I hate not trying and regretting it more than I hate trying and failing. And yet, I still chicken out sometimes when I really wanted to go up and say hi. Usually because I was too caught up in thinking about wanting to fuck that girl to think straight and be myself.

And I know a little bit about low self-esteem. I've been there, and I have close family members who suffer from excruciating insecurity, so I think I'm pretty good at recognising excuses and self-fulfilling "wish" statements.

It's easy to play the wounded heart, because you know that character, you know what he thinks and feels, and you know what he's expected to say. But you don't know how a confident person thinks and feels, you're worried you won't know how to react in a new situation and you'll get caught out because you can't play that part, and you don't know the lines. So you think it's more comfortable to be uncomfortable.

How am I doing?

Here's the truth. There's no part to play. A confident person doesn't know how a confident person thinks and feels, or what a confident person says. He just tries things out, tries the things that worked again the next time, and avoids the things that didn't.

The trick to is to be comfortable with the unknown, not to magically be so practiced that every life experience is effortless. That will never happen. Instead, once you realise that you're always learning from every experience you face, and each one makes you stronger and more interesting to be around, you'll crave new experiences and go looking for new experiences to learn from.

(edit) and my point was that women really aren't gonna slap you for talking to them in a bar. well, maybe once in a blue moon, but if she's that tapped, if Brad Pitt had have walked up, he'd have got a slap too.

[thenewdude Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close thenewdude]

Whether she says yes or no, you won't know until you try. A closed mouth goes hungry. A woman does like a man to be the first to approach her because it shows a sign of confidence. If a woman finds you attractive, she will give you a few glances her and there and you can tell. The next step is you making your move to acquaint yourself with her and if you present yourself right, you will be good to go.

[Hockey_NY Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hockey_NY]

A lot of good advice- Much appreciated...I am looking up Dunning Kruger effect as we speak, BTW. The other responses make sense as well.

Amiok- Nothing to do with penis size. In fact, a supremely confident man would get girls w/ a 4" or 10." I don't think I was teased much....Just always felt inadequate in other ways. Not confident and introverted to the extreme. I never put myself into a good position to mingle and meet girls- so I never really learned the art of small talk, etc with them.


Right now there are other reasons...I am really disappointed about my job situation and have kind of a mental checklist that I need a descent job and then getting myself my own apartment before looking (since I would like a private place for a relationship, I'm not in HS anymore or even college where you can take girls home and it is OK). Cheap excuse, I know. But the fact is, right now in my life that is essential and most important (a good job). Oh, I don't drink either so that always posed a problem in terms of getting out there and meeting girls. And the thing is, the more it has dragged on, the more I have "put the pussy on the pedestal."