Minuteman's Dry Orgasm Guide

[ammonite Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ammonite]

Yes it probably is a habit, but I don't know how I'll be able to stop it because it's just so strong. I've dealt with almost all other IK except for this one. No matter how slow I go I just can't stop it.

I think it also stops me ejaculating, which is why I have orgasm, then ejaculation after orgasm. The involuntary kegel during orgasm prevents the spasms there, but because of lack of strength (it was a full ejaculation) and also fatigue from the hold, I can't keep holding it after orgasm, and so the spasms begin and ejaculation occurs. To clarify, there is about a 1 second gap between the end of orgasm and start of ejaculation.

This is also how I have been able to achieve those "accidental" DO. Because the ejaculation comes after orgasm, if I stop stimulation at exactly the right time, I can get some of the orgasm (not as intense though) and not have the spasms of ejaculation afterwards.

Do you think I should try and stop this habit kegel? It seems to be making the muscle tired so that I can't continue to hold the kegel, and also it makes it very difficult to identify when the first spasm is.

[tpns Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tpns]

Now as always I recommend caution, try not to go over 2 DOs per session just until your pelvic floor adapts to a new found situation, don't rush to much even though it seems so easy to do it now. Always be sure to ejaculate at the end of a session that has a DO in it, especially now in the beginning and if you for some reason lose the erection after the second DO (or even after the first, it can sometimes happen) do not force the erection back in order to ejaculate, simply ejaculate tomorrow.

The later DOs are tricky for both the reasons you noted (stress and fluids), the fluid build up makes you simply more sensitive, so it is a very good idea that when you actually feel the fluid build up that way you should simply ejaculate. Ejaculation (and the orgasm following it) after soft wave session, or chained DO (hard wave session sort of), or even just a few DOs is almost always extremely pleasurable and strong, so strong in fact that more often then not I would be weak in the knees from the strength of a full body orgasm, this itself will open you to new ways of MMO and generally enjoying ejaculation (the way it is meant to be enjoyed, as a completion of a very good session, and not simply as a goal and short lived pleasure it mostly is when premature ejaculation is involved).

Okay mate, i will take it slow frm here on as i want to grasp as much perfection in this as i can and maintain a proper balance. This thing had so much pleasure and power in it that my body just wanted to keep going. lol But yes, its much better if I take it slow. Today morning tried again at an attempt to DO after 24 hrs but my body didn't really wanna go at it coz it took me an hour to get at 100% erection. I stopped and scheduled it for next week wen i am back frm my vacation.

One thing i learned in PE is to listen to your body. Coz it will show u d way itself if u got little discipline of things. And DO is same too wit a little twist in timing to catch hold of tht spasm kegel. just keep gud connections wit ur body and things will change much faster than u can imagine. Its lyk flowing in rythm wit ur body.

Ok Mm, Now u got me confused over soft wave and hard wave session.lol I know the difference between the feelings of those two but What should i look forward to in future wit more practice in this?

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Yes it probably is a habit, but I don't know how I'll be able to stop it because it's just so strong. I've dealt with almost all other IK except for this one. No matter how slow I go I just can't stop it.

I think it also stops me ejaculating, which is why I have orgasm, then ejaculation after orgasm. The involuntary kegel during orgasm prevents the spasms there, but because of lack of strength (it was a full ejaculation) and also fatigue from the hold, I can't keep holding it after orgasm, and so the spasms begin and ejaculation occurs. To clarify, there is about a 1 second gap between the end of orgasm and start of ejaculation.

This is also how I have been able to achieve those "accidental" DO. Because the ejaculation comes after orgasm, if I stop stimulation at exactly the right time, I can get some of the orgasm (not as intense though) and not have the spasms of ejaculation afterwards.

Do you think I should try and stop this habit kegel? It seems to be making the muscle tired so that I can't continue to hold the kegel, and also it makes it very difficult to identify when the first spasm is.

While it is a habit it doesn't mean it is a bad habit and definitely not the crucial one to fix so don't let it bother you too much. One of the ways you can unlearn this is to make your body go completely limp (and relaxed) while holding a very slight reverse kegel at the beginning of the orgasm and ejaculation, this is also the way I avoid ejaculating when I accidentally go even so slightly over PONR (you can feel the ejaculation process starting), this can mostly be done when you are lying down on the back, while it might not be as effective for you it will get you used to the alternative approaches to PONR.

The other thing you should do is play around the PONR more, and note that when you have an orgasm it is normal to do a kegel (it is simply a way the body responds) but not a kegel hold, your goal should be just to make it become a kegel clench rather than hold, and not stopping it completely (since I don't even think it can be done when it comes to orgasm that is tied to ejaculation).

What you generally lack is strength to perform a DO, so you will need a routine to build up that strength and trough that you will improve your flexibility and isolation and most importantly the quality of your kegel hold, it is not important just to have a strong kegel hold, it is important to have a kegel hold that will not waver, and the one which is complete (which you can learn trough towel raises ofr example). The goal with DO is not just to hold the kegel but to have the kegel hold completely shut down the kegel spasms so that you don't have more than two (the initial one which you turn into a hold, and the very very weak second one, or in the ideal situations that one does not even appear).

The alternative is to make it your strength rather than your weakness, since form my perspective that kegel hold acts as a wall for you, that means you can use it as an indicator when to stop, so for example during sex as you get to train your body and yourself to stop ejaculation at the exactly the right time and then just either change position, or get down on your partner, or both. This will give you enough time to back away from PONR.

This ties into my next observation and that is that after some point (usually 20 minutes) if you stop enough times near PONR it seems much easier to control your arousal and you can last longer (your body gets used to the arousal, and therefore makes arousal control much easier).

If it makes any sense, exactly because I was so sensitive and have premature ejaculation was I actually able to get used to and DO proficiently in the relatively short amount of time (because of the sensitivity I got quickly attuned to soft wave orgasms that would simply take much more time to discover I would not have spent so much time near PONR over and over again). In other words I used my weakness as a tool to get something (my entire log is basically about that) better and get a confidence boost out of it, and renewed strength to deal with premE. You might want to try something like that with your own problem.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Ok Mm, Now u got me confused over soft wave and hard wave session.lol I know the difference between the feelings of those two but What should i look forward to in future wit more practice in this?

Basically it comes down to proficiency, some people (like Pegasus) find it easy to do hard-wave orgasms which are basically chains of DO very close to one another, it is as you can see a very advanced technique that usually comes as a result of a very long term DO experience.

On the other hand there are soft-wave orgasms that are much more subtle in the way the orgasms are achieved (notice that I didn't say dry orgasms) and some people (like me) are better attuned to it because of the overall sensitivity. Soft-wave orgasms are chains of just orgasms or better yet a string of perfect dry-orgasms that your body does automatically by kegeling at the exactly the right time. One would argue that after much experience with hard-wave orgasms they tend to turn to soft-wave orgasms since the kegel hold needed to perform a DO becomes so precise and habitual that not much conscious effort is needed, but wheres the soft-wave orgasms are usually softer, the soft-way orgasms achieved trough mastering of hard-wave orgasms are much stronger.

Also because of my sensitivity I simply can't handle the hard-wave since the orgasms are just to strong for me there (and put to much strain on me) wheres the soft-wave is not as strong but can be longer and more enjoyable.

The main thing about the difference between hard and soft wave is that you usually pursue the hard-wave while the soft-wave must come to you (and the more you pursue it the less is the chance to actually have it). Another way to explain soft-wave is like a plateau but instead of high arousal you have orgasms (maybe that was not the best explanation).

This is higher-level MMO then what is needed for this guide and since it is very specific most of the time people pursue it on their own. Also you should focus more on DOing and in time all this will make much more sense.

[ammonite Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ammonite]

Okay so after a fairly normal edging session last night, I decided to play around the PONR a bit more and make some observations. As you said, the session was very long (over an hour) so I had more control over my arousal.

I now see the reason why I find the timing aspect very difficult. I held the RK as I approached PONR slowly and the urge to kegel became stronger. I slowed my stroke rate right down in order to make the best observations and try and maintain the RK hold. Eventually it did become overpowered, although not by the spasm kegel which you say to turn into the hold (I assume by spasm kegel you mean the ones which propel out the ejaculation?). Instead, it became over powered by the involuntary kegel hold. When this happened, I stopped all stimulation and the hold released itself after a few seconds. I then resumed stimulation for another few seconds before the kegel hold began again so I had to stop stimulation. I repeated this several times, but could not get any closer to orgasm without the kegel hold starting. Eventually my arousal decreased and I moved away from the PONR.

I then decided to let my normal ejaculation process happen and observe what happens. I edged towards the PONR slowly again. First thing I noticed is the tingling feeling in the testes that signals I am passing from plateau to orgasm. Then after perhaps 30 seconds of increasing arosal the involuntary kegel hold begins. This stays firmly held for another 10-15 seconds before orgasm starts. The kegel the stays held for another 10 seconds during the pleasurable sensations of orgasm, before stopping at the end of orgasm at which point the spasm kegels begin and I ejaculate.

What I find especially strange about this is how I am able to hold the kegel for that long. This is a 20-30 second long, very strong continuous IK (like a towel raise). However, my strength is not good at the moment, I can only hold an actual towel raise for maybe 5 seconds (doing the routine to work on this). What I don't understand is how simply stroking my penis gives me so much more strength in my kegel hold. I am sure this hold is complete, it doesn't waver and I don't have to re hold it. I tested the theory after ejaculation by masturbating while trying to perform a kegel (very bad habit this). Sure enough, I could hold the kegel for well over 20 seconds. Presumably this is because of a history of poor masturbation habits of using kegel holds to reach PONR faster, but I don't understand how it adds extra strength to my kegel.

I will try the going limp thing next time I edge lying down and see if this helps.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Okay so after a fairly normal edging session last night, I decided to play around the PONR a bit more and make some observations. As you said, the session was very long (over an hour) so I had more control over my arousal.

I now see the reason why I find the timing aspect very difficult. I held the RK as I approached PONR slowly and the urge to kegel became stronger. I slowed my stroke rate right down in order to make the best observations and try and maintain the RK hold. Eventually it did become overpowered, although not by the spasm kegel which you say to turn into the hold (I assume by spasm kegel you mean the ones which propel out the ejaculation?). Instead, it became over powered by the involuntary kegel hold. When this happened, I stopped all stimulation and the hold released itself after a few seconds. I then resumed stimulation for another few seconds before the kegel hold began again so I had to stop stimulation. I repeated this several times, but could not get any closer to orgasm without the kegel hold starting. Eventually my arousal decreased and I moved away from the PONR.

I then decided to let my normal ejaculation process happen and observe what happens. I edged towards the PONR slowly again. First thing I noticed is the tingling feeling in the testes that signals I am passing from plateau to orgasm. Then after perhaps 30 seconds of increasing arosal the involuntary kegel hold begins. This stays firmly held for another 10-15 seconds before orgasm starts. The kegel the stays held for another 10 seconds during the pleasurable sensations of orgasm, before stopping at the end of orgasm at which point the spasm kegels begin and I ejaculate.

What I find especially strange about this is how I am able to hold the kegel for that long. This is a 20-30 second long, very strong continuous IK (like a towel raise). However, my strength is not good at the moment, I can only hold an actual towel raise for maybe 5 seconds (doing the routine to work on this). What I don't understand is how simply stroking my penis gives me so much more strength in my kegel hold. I am sure this hold is complete, it doesn't waver and I don't have to re hold it. I tested the theory after ejaculation by masturbating while trying to perform a kegel (very bad habit this). Sure enough, I could hold the kegel for well over 20 seconds. Presumably this is because of a history of poor masturbation habits of using kegel holds to reach PONR faster, but I don't understand how it adds extra strength to my kegel.

I will try the going limp thing next time I edge lying down and see if this helps.

Very good observations and descriptions.

It really is peculiar that involuntary kegel hold before the ejaculation that you have and what caused it to develop in that way, by all intents and purposes (but it actually isn't) it seems like a first kegel spasm (first kegel spasm never caries any sperm, only during the second or the third one does the actual sperm gets out.), the good news is that if it is actually first spasm then you have the ability to have DOs automatically so to speak, which is a good and useful feat.

Here is another thing, what if your response is the natural one and that in normal situation it should be a kegel hold there and not just a kegel, it seems odd to me but it doesn't meant this I don't have this that it makes it wrong. So in ideal situation we need a few more people to test this out and confirm it.

Another theory is that maybe that kegel hold should be there but it should not be too long (your case) or to short (my case).

Also an observation on the normal flow you did after, it seems like your involuntary kegel hold induced an orgasm, and after it ejaculation, maybe that involuntary kegel hold is the reason you have premature ejaculation in the first place? (Right now I am just throwing theories in the air, some might actually hit the mark).

When I have the time I will try and reproduce what you did in other words:

- Hold a reverse kegel hold near PONR, see if something overpowers it while I slowly bring myself closer to PONR

- Slowly edge until PONR and then continue while observing the ejaculation process.

[ammonite Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ammonite]

It is a shame it isn't the first spasm, because that would make the timing really easy. However, I can tell when the first spasm starts because it is when the kegel hold ends and the spasm begins. I have had one or two DOs from the kegel hold, where if I stop stimulation at the right time the kegel hold stays held during orgasm, thus stopping the spasms, but then for some reason the spasms don't happen afterwards. I cannot do this while continuing stimulation though, so the orgasm is not as powerful.

I think this is definitely the reason I had Pre E in the first place, I used to hold a kegel for the duration of stimulation to make it feel better and to bring orgasm faster. I think I must have continued to hold the kegel during orgasm to give me more powerful orgasms. I realised this was bad though when I found this site, and was able to stop kegelling during edging with the use of reverse kegels as in the first edging step in the original post of my edging for premature ejaculation thread. I have not been able however to stop holding the kegel just before and during orgasm.

I think that my case is abnormal, that there shouldn't be a kegel hold during orgasm. I think this because most guys seem to orgasm and ejaculate at the same time, wheras my kegel hold prevents ejaculation during orgasm, and so ejaculation occurs afterwards.

What I will do now is do some more start/stop edging at the end of my normal edging sessions, where I play around the PONR and make more observations and see if I can change anything. While I have good control now and can feel amazing pleasure in plateau phase and sometimes even soft wave orgasms, I feel that this kegel hold gives me very poor control around the PONR and so I will need to work on this.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

It is a shame it isn't the first spasm, because that would make the timing really easy. However, I can tell when the first spasm starts because it is when the kegel hold ends and the spasm begins. I have had one or two DOs from the kegel hold, where if I stop stimulation at the right time the kegel hold stays held during orgasm, thus stopping the spasms, but then for some reason the spasms don't happen afterwards. I cannot do this while continuing stimulation though, so the orgasm is not as powerful.

I think this is definitely the reason I had Pre E in the first place, I used to hold a kegel for the duration of stimulation to make it feel better and to bring orgasm faster. I think I must have continued to hold the kegel during orgasm to give me more powerful orgasms. I realised this was bad though when I found this site, and was able to stop kegelling during edging with the use of reverse kegels as in the first edging step in the original post of my edging for premature ejaculation thread. I have not been able however to stop holding the kegel just before and during orgasm.

I think that my case is abnormal, that there shouldn't be a kegel hold during orgasm. I think this because most guys seem to orgasm and ejaculate at the same time, wheras my kegel hold prevents ejaculation during orgasm, and so ejaculation occurs afterwards.

What I will do now is do some more start/stop edging at the end of my normal edging sessions, where I play around the PONR and make more observations and see if I can change anything. While I have good control now and can feel amazing pleasure in plateau phase and sometimes even soft wave orgasms, I feel that this kegel hold gives me very poor control around the PONR and so I will need to work on this.

I have done my session today, and from what I have observed I might have a kegel hold that is connected to an orgasm lasting tops 3 seconds (but I am sure it was less) and as you say after that the first spasm comes and the rest of the process.

While this definitely requires further attention from your side, since it only affect the part very near PONR it should not impact your overall performance too much.

I think that the best way to fix this is to bring your plateau closer to PONR area but not too close, so that you get to have more orgasmic feelings without kegel holds (maybe even running into soft-wave orgasms, that would definitely fix the problem), once you had a good number of them over the sessions maybe the body will get used to the fact that it doesn't need the hold in order to have an orgasm. It will be a hard habit to break down, but I believe that with your dedication and skill in time (sooner rather than later) you will be able to do it, even more now that you have pinpointed it completely.

[Rinoceronte Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rinoceronte]

Hello Minuteman,

finally I'm into the forum.
Sorry for being not good in english, but i try to exlpain myself as better I can.
it is some time that I have 2 questions for you and i hope you can reply to me:
1- during intercourse , in order to last longer in bed, you prefere to use reverse kegel or doing a dry orgasm and the go ahead?

2- you told in your post that after 2,5 pulses, is better to ejaculate without waiting more times, otherwise it can be dangerous . Do you know someone who was hurt by tis kind of dry orgasm ?
18 months ago I start practice DO by your post, :I feel about 5 pulses any time. (some drops goes to bladder or out, but i do not lose the erection)
Thank you very much for reply to me
Rino.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Hello Minuteman,

finally I'm into the forum.
Sorry for being not good in english, but i try to exlpain myself as better I can.
it is some time that I have 2 questions for you and i hope you can reply to me:
1- during intercourse , in order to last longer in bed, you prefere to use reverse kegel or doing a dry orgasm and the go ahead?

2- you told in your post that after 2,5 pulses, is better to ejaculate without waiting more times, otherwise it can be dangerous . Do you know someone who was hurt by tis kind of dry orgasm ?
18 months ago I start practice DO by your post, :I feel about 5 pulses any time. (some drops goes to bladder or out, but i do not lose the erection)
Thank you very much for reply to me
Rino.

1. Since I'm a virgin I didn't have sex, but during edging sessions I tend to focus more on relaxation (reverse kegels so to speak) and arousal control and conditioning, dry orgasms also work but require much more work, but will also pay off in the end.

2. It can be dangerous in a way that it can cause retrograde ejaculation, repeated retrograde ejaculation can weaken or injure internal muscles in the pelvic floor. I don't know anybody who was hurt by dry orgasm, but that doesn't mean it wont happen to somebody who is not careful.

I think you need a stronger and more complete kegel hold so you should focus on the pelvic floor routine in this guide first.

[asasf181 Member Find all posts View Profile Close asasf181]

Hi!
My orgasm seems to be very much like what ammonite describes: a long kegel hold and a good feeling of orgasm, followed by the spasms of ejaculation.
And I also used to kegel the whole time I was masturbating to get it more intense and to cum quicker. And just like him - I am now (partly) able to control my involuntary kegels during the session but not during orgasm.

I guess someone without the problem of pre e can help us figure out what's normal.

EDIT:
After edging and paying closer attention to my orgasm, I have to correct myself.
I do have a kegel hold, but it is not as long as ammonite describes, but shorter - more like what MinuteMan said, and than come the spasms with the ejaculation.

[Vociferous Member Find all posts View Profile Close Vociferous]

Minuteman,

Should I stop stroking at PONR? I notice when I do that the involuntary spasm are weaker, which seems to make it harder to ascertain when the invol kegal is going to go away. Hard to explain. A stronger invol spasm you know its over and done with...

However, stroking whilst attempting DO the invol spasms are too strong?

Are tri point kegals essential if I am doing reverse front sine kegals?

Thanks for your help you are awesome!

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Minuteman,

Should I stop stroking at PONR? I notice when I do that the involuntary spasm are weaker, which seems to make it harder to ascertain when the invol kegal is going to go away. Hard to explain. A stronger invol spasm you know its over and done with...

However, stroking whilst attempting DO the invol spasms are too strong?

Are tri point kegals essential if I am doing reverse front sine kegals?

Thanks for your help you are awesome!

Most of the time I find it better to stop a little bit beyond PONR with the strokes, but I tend to stroke very slowly, fast stroking but abrupt stop also works for me.

As for the reverse sine front and tri points, basically tri points aren't essential so you can sub them out from 1.5 and 2.5 where applicable, but should retain them in the other exercises.

[chlorinerush310 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close chlorinerush310]

Hi Minuteman,Question about reverse kegels. I get the point of them obviously, and can identify what I'm supposed to be doing when I speed up the flow of urine, but am still having trouble with reverse kegels on their own. Is there any way to tell if I'm doing them correctly initially? When I try them, I feel like my abdominal muscles tighten up. Is this right? Regular kegels are nice, because if erect, your penis moves, and if not, you can always hold it out (not with too much force) and tug back against it (similar to what is described in the JP90 routine). Since the reverse kegel is a stretch of the same muscle, I'm assuming the penis doesn't move. Is there any way to tell that I'm doing it correctly and not just wasting my time? Sorry if this has been addressed in another page on here, or somewhere else. LOTS of information on these forums.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Hi Minuteman,Question about reverse kegels. I get the point of them obviously, and can identify what I'm supposed to be doing when I speed up the flow of urine, but am still having trouble with reverse kegels on their own. Is there any way to tell if I'm doing them correctly initially? When I try them, I feel like my abdominal muscles tighten up. Is this right? Regular kegels are nice, because if erect, your penis moves, and if not, you can always hold it out (not with too much force) and tug back against it (similar to what is described in the JP90 routine). Since the reverse kegel is a stretch of the same muscle, I'm assuming the penis doesn't move. Is there any way to tell that I'm doing it correctly and not just wasting my time? Sorry if this has been addressed in another page on here, or somewhere else. LOTS of information on these forums.

The fastest way I have used to determine if I am actually performing a reverse kegel is to perform a slight kegel and then a reverse kegel and use that difference in movement as an indicator, especially in the area between the anus and testicles.

For more info on reverse kegels consult:

https://www.pegym.com/forums/prematu...se-kegels.html
https://www.pegym.com/forums/prematu...se-kegels.html
https://www.pegym.com/forums/prematu...preme-faq.html
https://www.pegym.com/forums/prematu...ster-list.html